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Published Oct 15, 21
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Well, thanks really a lot. I wish to offer you all a break for a minute and also look to Mr. Swartz. You have actually been really patient, the 3 of you. I appreciate that quite. Typically, we would certainly have had 2 panels, but we really did not understand exactly how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an effort to ensure we made it through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you point out in your testament as well as your statements that the treaty with Bermuda likewise pierces financial institution secrecy and also supplies a mechanism for us getting the info we need. There have been some mutual legal aid treaties that contain provisions relevant straight to sharing bank documents or other economic info.

Swartz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to that particular issue, the committee might be describing the reasonably brand-new provision that appears, for example, in our E.U.-U.S. Mutual Legal Support Treaty, the recognition of financial institution documents provision. That was a stipulation that was composed as well as adopted in the context of the E.U.

Under that provision, it's feasible for the requesting party to look for details regarding whether an account exists in the requested country, or in the situation of the E.U., among the requested member states. But, thereafter, the request, if there is an identification of an account, need to be adhered to up via a basic common legal assistance treaty.

And when it come to Bermuda, our document of participation has actually been very excellent. Our team believe that the record we have on the manufacturing of documents, including bank documents, is such that we are certain that the stipulations included in this mutual legal help treaty, which do call for collaboration on the manufacturing of records, will certainly be adequate to ensure that we acquire the documents we require for our monetary examinations and other examinations.

Some various other MLATs also permit for immediate, non-written type demands to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty does need requests in written form, it was the judgment of the mediators that it sufficed that, in this case, with regard to Bermuda, we would be able to obtain expeditious actions to our requests as well as likewise supply such feedbacks to Bermuda's demands, especially due to the fact that we have a technique already established that will proceed, we believe, under the treaty of being able to communicate those demands via email or with fax.

Legislator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda resisted that since they wished to see to it that the requests were clear and also in a more formal method. In the arrangements, it also became clear that they approved that such request can be made by fax or by e-mail. So the genuine concern they were worried concerning was not finding a rapid methods to make a request, however truly simply taking oral requests off the table.

So we're confident that we have actually obtained the means in position that we can make urgent demands of them in such a way that will be efficient. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I could add, as a matter of fact, while it is a benefit to be able to make oral requests, in practice, it's very uncommon that we do so.

Legislator Cardin. My main problem is simply, in immediate matters, that it's not delayed. And also with modern-day communication, it appears to me that can probably be handled. I'm more worried regarding financial institution records. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of remarks on the financial institution records problem? Mr. Johnson. Once again, not particularly on the financial institution concern.

The difference in between being able to do an oral demand or being able to make use of one of these other extremely rapid methods, we believe, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There've been some problems raised concerning the competence of Bermuda law with respect to forfeits of proceeds as well as instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Of program, the development of loss legislation is an essential and modern matter. We've seen a variety of changes over the program of the years, consisting of here in the United States. But the Shared Legal Support Treaty in Post 17 does obligate Bermuda to supply support to the United States in process connecting to forfeit of proceeds as well as instrumentalities of crime, to the extent allowed by the legislation of Bermuda.

We have actually had two examples of successful requests for restriction and loss of properties. Both circumstances were a success and also we were able to acquire the funds. As a general matter, support is readily available under the regulations of Bermuda, and I do think that is very important to anxiety, with regard to cold, taking, and limiting properties, including for issues connecting to terrorism and terrorism financing.

But it should be kept in mind that loss support is not limited to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to a UNITED STATE order, Bermuda can not forfeit a particular agency of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. However again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug violation instances.

Senator Cardin. In the Bermuda agreement, there's an arrangement that is not unknown to us, where Bermuda can reject participation in capital situations.

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Are we hindered as an outcome of that or exists a method which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, even in those cases? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, our company believe and we wish we still would have the ability to comply. Bermuda suggested, and also has encouraged the United States, that it books the right to reject aid in capital situations where the sentence includes a feasible death fine, relying on the-- in contrast to the important public plan provision of Post 3 of the convention.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with other countries that have actually put similar interpretations on the mutual legal help obligations, as well as we have actually been able to exercise plans in a number of cases that enable us to obtain proof or go over whether the evidence is significant enough to move forward with some sort of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I can simply contribute to that, among the factors this treaty took as lengthy it did to negotiate as well as end is because it was crucial to us to ensure that there wasn't an express constraint on help in capital instances in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. Which means we assume that assists keep the principle that is essential to us, that such collaboration ought to be available, irrespective of the type of instance. As well as we assume this has also birthed out with a few other countries, where also with comparable concerns about participation in resources situations, they have, as an example, been able to supply support to the nonpenalty phase of a trial or one more event examination.

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Legislator Cardin. But they do hold the right under this treaty to refute teamwork where the United States criminal justice system is looking for death sentence? Mr. Johnson. Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide help if are contrary to public law or their necessary passions, and they have informed us that they translate that to enable them, in death charge situations, to exercise that.

Legislator Cardin. I comprehend that. I just intended to make it clear that they would not be a violation of the treaty. We recognize their interpretation, that if there was an instance pending right here that we needed their aid, where, clearly, the district attorneys were looking for the death sentence, Bermuda could make a decision not to coordinate under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I can claim, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would need, because this would be a denial under Post 3 of the treaty, that initially there needed to be examinations with the United States, before that denial can move forward. As well as I think that's a vital element of the arrangement that Mr.

Instead of having a specific arrangement, this is one of a set of problems under which support may be denied after consultation, and also, among other things, that there need to be consideration as to whether aid can be given, based on such problems as the asked for country deems needed. And our experience in that regard has been that we oftentimes can find proper assurances to enable proof to be produced, at least for initial analysis of the importance of evidence in the case on the whole.

And also I believe that would be practical for us to have that details in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. foreign tax credit. We would certainly rejoice to supply that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest task here, considering that this agreement was previously accepted by this board. As I claimed in my opening, we authorized it far too late in the 111th Congress for action.

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Have there been any significant modifications in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda considering that last November when you gave testimony on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen considering that last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a few instances.

In February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major hotel in Kigali. And also, also, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's expanding friendliness market. I would state that, provided this pattern of raised financial investment, that it is essential that the protections be managed for them.

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investors. Senator Cardin. I thanks for that (foreign tax credit). You likewise pointed out the reality that the United States is exploring other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you mentioned one other nation. I think we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply show to us other nations that the United States has revealed passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Legislator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the staff that I must ask the question of whether the administration still sustains the Us senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We absolutely do. Senator Cardin.



I think that finishes the questioning. I do appreciate your patience with the committee and also thank you very a lot for your testimony today.

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Answer. As laid out below, we wish to provide upgraded info on reported UNITED STATE financial investment activity in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the responses given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress remain accurate. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I think that would certainly be helpful for us to have that info in this board. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest job here, given that this agreement was previously approved by this committee. As I said in my opening, we authorized it as well late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any kind of substantial adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda because last November when you gave testament on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen because last November is a boost in United States financial investment in Rwanda, as well as I can provide you a few instances.

Also, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open up a significant resort in Kigali. And also, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the nation's growing hospitality market. So I would claim that, provided this pattern of boosted financial investment, that it is very important that the protections be afforded for them.

investors. Legislator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You likewise mentioned the reality that the United States is discovering other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I think you pointed out another nation. I believe we have 5 existing reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us various other countries that the United States has shown interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I've been informed by the personnel that I must ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, considering that it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I think that completes the examining. I do value your perseverance with the board as well as thank you really much for your testament today.

Response. As laid out below, we would love to supply updated info on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. Besides these updates, the responses given by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress stay accurate. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign direct investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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